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42 Harbinger 1 (2017-2018)

handle is hein.journals/harbg42 and id is 1 raw text is: INTERVIEW - PROFESSOR MARTIN GUGGENHEIM ANDREW GERST Note: This interview has been edited and condensed for publication. AG: Prof. Guggenheim, thank you so much for speaking with us today. The Family Defense Symposium took place in April 2016. It's been twenty- five years since the Family Defense Clinic started at NYU Law. How do you think the symposium went? MG: I thought it was a great day. It was wonderful to see so many people who had been in the clinic as students and teachers and fellows. It also brought out many of the great lawyers in New York City who care about the field. We had some wonderful nationally recognized scholars to celebrate not just the clinic but, for many, the meaning of the clinic's anniversary-the reality that family defense, as an important field of practice-is a real thing. There were about 170-200 people there. AG: I can imagine it must have been extraordinary. Can you tell us about how the field of family defense started? MG: Well, originally child welfare intervention by the government-that led to coercive removal of children-really began in the 1970s. That was the modern version of it. Before that, children entered the state's care, but not through a formal legal proceeding. So there had been, in states like New York, attorneys assigned to represent indigent parents throughout that time since the 1970s. But what those lawyers usually did was, to borrow from the closest analogy- when the state gives someone accused of doing something the consequence of losing fundamental rights-the criminal defense field. And in criminal defense, for better or worse, indigent defenders really are courthouse lawyers. They make the center of their attention the courthouse. They see the courthouse as the most important place for advancing their clients' interests. So when we started the clinic in 1990, we were trying to figure out what is the right way-a good way-to represent parents. Through trial, error, and discovery, we learned that the courtroom is not the best place for us. We learned that time out of courtroom is exponentially more important. The courtroom can sometimes be critical to success. But we needed to penetrate the agency level of practice. Because in the practice, you have two proceedings happening at the same time. You have the court hearing. But the agency also schedules conferences with parents, at which crucial decisions are made. We quickly appreciated that we needed to attend those conferences and shape those conversations. In order for parents to get their children back, they must 1

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